Described as “one of the most versatile men in modern music” by Sound on Sound Magazine, Dr. Richard Niles has built a strong career as a performer, recording artist, producer, songwriter, composer and arranger, author and educator. His widespread interests have allowed him to work with artists from many different genres of music, including Paul McCartney, Ray Charles, TinaTurner, Tears for Fears and Kylie Minogue. As well as being highly involved in the rock, pop and RnB world, Niles has maintained a parallel career in jazz, having worked alongside world-class jazz musicians such as Gary Husband, Michel Legrand, Jane Monheit and through his most recent work as an author, Pat Metheny.
Niles’ latest book, The Pat Metheny Interviews, finds the author focusing on Metheny the artist, the creative genius who has penned and recorded one of the music worlds most prolific catalogues. The book explores the musical concepts that Metheny uses in his writing and performing, and more importantly, how he developed those concepts and achieves the lofty goals that he set out for himself as an artist. Accompanied by musical examples, transcribed by the author, the book goes beyond the usual biographical and guitar specific material that is normally found in a Metheny interview. It is a chance for musicians and non-musicians alike to learn more about the artistic process that fuels this legendary guitarist, composer and bandleader.
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Matthew Warnock: You’ve known Pat since 1974. How did the two of you first meet and how has your relationship developed over the years?
Richard Niles: I was a student at Berklee in 1974 when Pat was asked to teach by Gary Burton. Pat had just joined Gary’s band and I think Gary offered him the gig to provide a steady income for Pat until they started recording and touring.
A small number of guitarists were chosen by Gary to study with him and I was lucky enough to be in that group. As a guitarist, I certainly didn’t deserve to be in a selection that included Mike Stern and Jay Azzolina, but I think I was chosen because Gary liked my compositions and thought Pat and I would understand each other.
Pat was, and is, a superb teacher for three reasons. First, he’s great at pinpointing what’s lacking in a student. Next, he has a logical methodology that he worked out as a child and developed through his career. Third, he’s extremely articulate and can explain everything to do with art, even the poetic and “spiritual stuff”, with pragmatic clarity. That’s a potent combination.
Pat later asked me to write a guitar quartet for the graduation concert, 1975. It was called The Empathy Quartet and was performed by Stern, Azzolina, Mitch Coodley and Pat. I’m re-writing it now for a possible new album.
I kept in touch with Pat after Berklee, and in 1979 met him backstage at a gig at the Santa Monica Civic in LA. He asked me to co-produce his next ECM album. I’d been producing in London for four years and this was Pat’s first record not produced by Manfred Eicher. I found an engineer and we recorded it at Longview Farm (where Stuff had been recorded). The album became American Garage, his most successful album to date. I came up with the title because a critic had described the Pat Metheny Group as a “very talented garage band!”
In 1988 Pat was approached by Norwegian artist Silje Nergaard to produce and write with her, but as the music was a mix of pop with jazz he recommended me because of my pop experience and jazz background. I produced and co-wrote three albums for her and we had a number one hit in Japan. Pat played on the title track “Tell Me Where You’re Going,” and we recorded with him in Rio, where he was living at the time.
A couple of years ago I did a 3-part documentary for BBC Radio 2 called Pat Metheny: Bright Size Life. The book is based on those, and many other interviews I’ve done with Pat over the years.
Matt: What is it about Pat’s music that has captivated your attention throughout the more than 35 years you’ve known him?
Richard: I’ve been fortunate to work with a number of musicians who deserve the overused description of genius—Paul McCartney, Ray Charles and James Brown would be on the list for sure. Any analytical study of music will demonstrate that innovation is fusion. Pat’s genius lies in his ability to see the conceptual possibilities for creating his own style by fusion; blending Wes Montgomery (himself a fusion of bop and blues) with the Beatles (a fusion of classical, rock ‘n’ roll and British music hall) and Miles Davis (fusing bop with classical and rock, with a great deal of help from Gil Evans). But having an idea is not enough. An artist needs to figure out how to manifest the concept with a rigorous methodology. And therein lies the genius of Pat Metheny.
Matt: What was the inspiration behind writing your book “The Pat Metheny Interviews?”
Richard: Throughout the years I was always annoyed that most of the interviews with Pat concentrated on what amps, effects or strings he used, the superficial areas concentrating on the guitar itself. But, as I put it to Pat in the book, the guitar “is no more than an instrument we use to express ourselves, like we use a spoon to drink soup or a doctor uses a scalpel to perform an operation.” I felt the music world deserved a view of why and how Metheny developed his concepts and methodologies. Understanding this allows a much better appreciation of how important an artist he truly is.
Matt: The book explores Pat’s approach to music, rather than being overly biographical in nature. Can readers who are not guitarists or musicians still follow the interviews, or is the book geared more towards guitarists?
Richard: Metheny is so much more than a guitarist. Yes, the way he plays the guitar is impressive and entertaining, but compared to the concept and the music, the guitar is lower on the list of what I wanted to concentrate on, it’s almost irrelevant. I therefore wrote this book for all music lovers, and beyond that, for all who find the artistic process fascinating.
Matt: What can readers expect from the new book in regards to the transcriptions and musical examples that you have included?
Richard: All instrumentalists will be fascinated by this. I haven’t transcribed a collection of hot licks or impressive little things you can memorize and wow your buddies with tonight on the bandstand. I asked Pat to demonstrate his concepts, which he does with the clarity of a Shakespearian sonnet and the precision of a guided missile. He talks about motivic development and gives a great example of how to develop playing “outside”.
Matt: Your thesis work for your PhD dealt with arrangers within the popular music idiom. Do you see popular music becoming more accepted as a legitimate subject in the world of higher education?
Richard: Duke Ellington famously said that he didn’t distinguish between genres; “There are only two kinds of music: good and bad.” In my opinion, “good” music is music that is passionate and innovative. Pop has advanced the development of music every bit as much as jazz and in terms of production (which after all is only a form of arranging) pop has gone way beyond.
The compositional contributions of arrangers such as Jesse Stone, Jack Nitzsche, Jeremy Lubbock, Jimmy Haskell and Arif Mardin should be studied. My next book, based on my thesis, is called The Invisible Artist. Does the general public know those names? Just as Miles Davis would have been a far lesser artist without the collaboration of Gil Evans, The Beatles would have been far less effective without George Martin. George Martin was never credited on any Beatles record as the arranger. He is not even credited in the great book The Beatles Complete Scores. Neither are the arrangers who transcribed the book. And does the public even know that Richard Carpenter, Barry Manilow and Brian Wilson did their own arrangements? My crusade is to make the contributions of these great artists more visible.
Since you mentioned education, I am frankly shocked at the fact that last year USC created the first, and only, popular music program in an American university. There are great private colleges like Berklee and the Musician’s Institute. More importantly, where is the ‘music appreciation’ class in high schools.
I have degree music students who are almost entirely unaware of the music of Cole Porter, Rodgers & Hart, Bob Dylan or Aretha Franklin. Commenting on the dearth (or death) of music education in schools, the great composer David Chesky says, “We get the culture we create.” We owe it to our culture to enrich it with the contributions of the past, without which we cannot move forward. Pop without a past merely reinvents the wheel which creates the TV promoted, dumbed-down culture we now suffer.
Matt: As well as being a writer and performer you are also a highly respected educator. You currently offer several different workshops on various music related topics. What can potential students expect from participating in one or more of the workshops you offer?
Richard I’ve been a successful producer, arranger, composer, songwriter and performer since 1975 and I’ve managed artists and had my own label with international success. My workshops are an opportunity to meet and interact with someone who has done just about everything and worked with many artists who changed the face of music in pop, jazz, classical and R&B.
Students can have their work evaluated and their questions answered. They’ll get valuable information, personal guidance and artistic inspiration. I’d add that my evaluations are not just my opinions, but are based on my real-world knowledge and experience. I also give private lessons all over the world using Skype, which I’m a huge fan of. Students who are not afraid of hard work can contact me through my website for more information regarding workshops and private lessons.
Matt: You have also written two books called What is Melody? and What is Improvisation?, can you give us a brief overview of what people can expect from these two works?
Richard: These are as yet unpublished, but coming for next year.
I really love asking basic questions. We all think we know what a melody is, but you try defining it. In What Is Melody? I asked artists in many genres, including the Bee Gees, Nickleback, Greg Phillinganes, Bob James and the Cheetah Girls, and got some provocative answers. As with all my books, there are some fascinating transcriptions alongside the text.
For What is Improvisation? I wanted to explain improvisation to musicians and non-musicians alike, because we improvise all the time even when we’re talking. Music is just another language. So I asked many superb improvisers, including Pat Metheny, Eliane Elias, Marc Johnson, Gary Burton, Randy Brecker, Maria Schnieder, Paquito D’Rivera and Martin Taylor to demonstrate their concepts and techniques on their instruments. And I’ve transcribed their improvisations. If I say so myself, this book is more fun than a box of clowns!
Matt: After finding success as a writer, radio broadcaster, performer and arranger/composer, what does the future hold for you as a musician?
Richard: I am so lucky to be involved in a number of exciting projects. First, with the demise of the music business, artist development within record companies (as it was practiced from the 1920s to the 1980s) is non-existent. I have always discovered new artists, recognized talent and been able to pinpoint how to manifest it.
I’m currently touring with Younee, a mind-bogglingly talented young Korean singer and virtuoso pianist. We co-wrote the album on SKYPE and recorded it in my London studio. The combination of her classical chops and love of pop, combined with my love of rock and jazz, has resulted in a really new thing which is really, well… youneeqe!
I’m also just beginning a project with the great Deniece Williams, a diva among divas, one of the greatest singers popular music has produced. It will be her first jazz record and we’re calling it Jazz My Soul. We’ll do standards and originals by Deniece and myself. I will arrange and produce, helped by some of the finest jazz players on earth. We will record it live in London next year and make a DVD. The gigs will also be available as a webcast. I seriously can’t wait to do this project, as her voice consistently kills me.
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Links
The Pat Metheny Interviews on Amazon
True to You by Younee on Amazon
